Zuworty's Raid Information

[Holyssa]

I'm starting to use WoW Meter Online for the combat logs (less buggy than WWS).

I'm with Karrock on this. Much easier on the eyes than WWS is, but I'm sure some still prefer WWS. Next raid, can we vote on using it as the standard from now on?

On Flasks: this was discussed last night, but as a friendly reminder: please bring and use them as much as you can.

~ If you're having trouble getting your hands on some? Ask raiders/guildies. If anything, people will bite your head off for NOT asking for help. AH prices can be intimidating, but I'm sure there's plenty of our crack-lab scientists alchemists who would be happy to brew a bundle to help you survive the week.

~ Do dailies. Shouldn't even have to mention this. The money can at LEAST help with buying the more difficult herbs needed to create the drinks.

~ Flasking makes things die faster with the boost they provide. Even on 'farm' content (Archavon/Flame Leviathan aside), it never hurts. More flasking = moar stats = MOAR CARNAGE (for the enemy)! RAWR~! /bullinchinashop

~ I shouldn't even have to link this either, but here's a list of the flavors of Froot Loops...err, flasks commonly seen at end game, so you can see what herbs are needed:

- Flask of Endless Rage (aka "Oh-Mah-Gawd Orange")

- Flask of Pure Mojo ("Lawl-icious Lime")

- Flask of Stoneblood ("Put-yer-face-in-it Purple" or "Godammit Grape")

- Flask of the Frostwyrm ("Sonnova-BEEEECH Blueberry")

[Orcala]

Just letting you all know I won't be online tomorrow night since a family thing has come up at the last minute. See you all on Tuesday! (and some today for the 10 man)

Try not to miss my DPS to much

[Waldonnis]

I'm with Karrock on this. Much easier on the eyes than WWS is, but I'm sure some still prefer WWS. Next raid, can we vote on using it as the standard from now on?

I'm torn on WWS vs. WMO (and why I may try a third option for my personal logs). Both have their strengths and weaknesses. I do like WMO's presentation and navigation a bit better, but stability and upload time can be ugly at peak times (much more so than WWS). The one thing that I like about WWS is being able to see a list of abilities per fight (then who used them) rather than having to browse by actor individually. Comparisons by class are also significantly easier on WWS, and have helped me to find some problems in my other raids.

Personally, I upload all of my logs to both, then use each to see the things they're good at presenting...and have been known to use a local parser to see things that neither show

[Baracko]

Another available option: World of Logs

It offers some very nice comparison options that I have found helpful.

RAWR! Good luck with Thorim this week!

[Kadi]

Just letting you all know I won't be online tomorrow night since a family thing has come up at the last minute. See you all on Tuesday! (and some today for the 10 man)

Try not to miss my DPS to much

Hey, you're supposed to tank the gauntlet tomorrow! You're not allowed to go do family stuff!! Get back here! *Shakes fist in air*

Oh, allright. I guess we'll have to survive without you. *pout*

[Holyssa]

Thorim is all that stands between us and battling General Vezax, aka the Zoidberg Boss! I'll explain the fight when we get to him, but save Zu and I the headache by PLEASE skimming through his spell list:

http://www.wowhead.com/?npc=33271#comments

The general idea behind this fight is to spend your mana wisely while roasting this big green lobster ASAP. Some additional tips from the comments:

~ The siphon range on Mark of the Faceless (his life drain) is 15 yards. He will not cast this on players within 15 yards of him. However, if there are not at least 9 people outside of 15 yards he will start casting it on players inside 15 yards melee and tank included.

~ He will not use Shadow Crash on players within 15 yards of him. During the kiting portion (Surge of Darkness), he's been known to lob Crashes at melee if people run too far away.

~ Here's a list of how much damage/mana refunded the Vapors will do per tick. Healers in particular may want to study this, and use their better judgement as to how many ticks they can survive before the damage becomes scary:

1 stack - 100 mana restored - 200 damage to you

2 stack - 200 mana restored - 400 damage to you

3 stack - 400 mana restored - 800 damage to you

4 stack - 800 mana restored - 1,600 damage to you

5 stack - 1600 mana restored - 3,200 damage to you

6 stack - 3200 mana restored - 6,400 damage to you

7 stack - 6400 mana restored - 12,800 damage to you

8 stack - 12800 mana restored - 25,600 damage to you

To my knowledge, this damage is the same on 10-man. DKs CAN grip the Vapors.

~ Warlocks can use Shadow Ward to soak the Vapor damage and still get mana refunded.

~ Dark Runes/Demonic Runes (those things from Scholo) do work here. However, they share a long cooldown with mage gems and warlock cookies. Hunters/Ret Pallies may wish to consider Fel Mana Potions, which restore mana over time at the cost of 25 SpellPower. Use at your own risk!

~ Life Tap doesn't work. Nor does Innervate. The regen effects from Lifebloom, Thrill of the Hunt (survival), Invigoration (BM) work ok. Leader of the Pack also works, but only for the druid supplying the buff. For all you resto druids: punch him until Omen of Clarity procs between healing, and voila: mana-mana!

EDIT: Looks like Vezax and other endgame got a nerf-paddle to the a$$:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.h...81949&sid=1

* Curse of Weakness no longer stacks with Demoralizing Shout or Demoralizing Roar.

* The following Ulduar bosses have had their melee damage slightly reduced in both normal and heroic versions: Algalon, Thorim, General Vezax, and Steelbreaker.

Not very surprising given the impending arrival of the Colosseum (lol Two Worms).

Edited July 23, 2009 by Holyssa

[Karrock]

Thorim is all that stands between us and battling General Vezax, aka the Zoidberg Boss! I'll explain the fight when we get to him, but save Zu and I the headache by PLEASE skimming through his spell list:

http://www.wowhead.com/?npc=33271#comments

The general idea behind this fight is to spend your mana wisely while roasting this big green lobster ASAP. Some additional tips from the comments:

~ The siphon range on Mark of the Faceless (his life drain) is 15 yards. He will not cast this on players within 15 yards of him. However, if there are not at least 9 people outside of 15 yards he will start casting it on players inside 15 yards melee and tank included.

~ He will not use Shadow Crash on players within 15 yards of him. During the kiting portion (Surge of Darkness), he's been known to lob Crashes at melee if people run too far away.

~ Here's a list of how much damage/mana refunded the Vapors will do per tick. Healers in particular may want to study this, and use their better judgement as to how many ticks they can survive before the damage becomes scary:

1 stack - 100 mana restored - 200 damage to you

2 stack - 200 mana restored - 400 damage to you

3 stack - 400 mana restored - 800 damage to you

4 stack - 800 mana restored - 1,600 damage to you

5 stack - 1600 mana restored - 3,200 damage to you

6 stack - 3200 mana restored - 6,400 damage to you

7 stack - 6400 mana restored - 12,800 damage to you

8 stack - 12800 mana restored - 25,600 damage to you

To my knowledge, this damage is the same on 10-man. DKs CAN grip the Vapors.

~ Warlocks can use Shadow Ward to soak the Vapor damage and still get mana refunded.

~ Dark Runes/Demonic Runes (those things from Scholo) do work here. However, they share a long cooldown with mage gems and warlock cookies. Hunters/Ret Pallies may wish to consider Fel Mana Potions, which restore mana over time at the cost of 25 SpellPower. Use at your own risk!

~ Life Tap doesn't work. Nor does Innervate. The regen effects from Lifebloom, Thrill of the Hunt (survival), Invigoration (BM) work ok. Leader of the Pack also works, but only for the druid supplying the buff. For all you resto druids: punch him until Omen of Clarity procs between healing, and voila: mana-mana!

Looks like its time to break out the ChS>StS>StS>StS>StS shot rotation and go make some waffles!

K

[Elrikk]

Sorry about my attendance in the last couple of weeks, we've just had a string of bad luck in our family with health issues...I've been resting all day and am going to try my best to help out tonight... Trust me, I'd rather be with you guys then watching endless episodes of the "Beverly Hillbilly's" all day, but the medication has really been kicking my ass.

[Elrikk]

Sorry about my attendance in the last couple of weeks, we've just had a string of bad luck in our family with health issues...I've been resting all day and am going to try my best to help out tonight... Trust me, I'd rather be with you guys then watching endless episodes of the "Beverly Hillbilly's" all day, but the medication has really been kicking my ass.

um...forget what I wrote, I'm wiped out from just posting this....sorry guys.

[Orcala]

Sorry about my attendance in the last couple of weeks, we've just had a string of bad luck in our family with health issues...I've been resting all day and am going to try my best to help out tonight... Trust me, I'd rather be with you guys then watching endless episodes of the "Beverly Hillbilly's" all day, but the medication has really been kicking my ass.

You should be watching the Munsters, that was some quality stuff there!

[Karrock]

I was going to add a post here about last night but I don't think I hit the "Add Reply" button hard enough....

BWAHAHAHA! Another Kadi classic!

K

[Holyssa]

I was going to add a post here about last night but I don't think I hit the "Add Reply" button hard enough....

Well, my 2 copper:

Thorim

P1 was pwnsauce once we shook the cobwebs out from last week, but the transition to P2 seems to be a little crazy. Any adds left from the gauntlet must be dealt with immediately! Healers must also be ready to save bubbles/mitigation spells for the tank who is about to get eaten by Unbalancing Strikes (which aren't really on a predictable timer). Around the 6-8 stack mark, those strikes can be very hard to shrug off with his crazy attack speed. Overall, a much better kill compared to previous nights

Rock Lobster General Vezax

For our first look at him, we did pretty good! But things to keep in mind for next time:

~ Take advantage of Shadow Crash goop. Yes, it's difficult to see among the fog, but you're looking at a fight where you need to pay 100% attention anyways. Even if we survived our best attempt last night to the fullest, the tight enrage timer would have eaten our faces, and it is one more danger to be concerned about if we plan to kill this guy. There WILL be times when a ranged person will get Mark of the Faceless when standing in said black goop, so beware!

~ Healing Priests: I discussed this with Tizzy, but a little tip on Power Word: Shield usage - a rotation of sorts may need to be set up while everyone else grows used to the spike damage. Tizzy seems to be the only one with the Body and Soul talent, which gives me a nice speed boost upon being bubbled. If any other priest bubbles me during that time, Zoidberg is just going to one-shot me through the barrier while Weakened Soul occurs. My knowledge of how priest cooldowns work is rusty, but maybe you guys can form a plan to prevent little Holy from being lobster chow

[Karrock]

Thorim:

Both parts were good the last attempt, but we have to remember we leave 2 adds in the gaunt who will come back to the group. Maybe an add tank from the arena can bolo for those and we can dps them down then go to thorim. People still need to be told to get out of the lightning (myself included), gotta work on that too.

Vezax:

It is all about execution at this point-I think everyone knows what to do. Looks like it may go the Archi route: step 1, survive until we hit the enrage timer, step 2, optimize dps/positioning to kill him before enrage.

K

[Kadi]

I was going to add a post here about last night but I don't think I hit the "Add Reply" button hard enough....

I would make a comment here, but I think I just cracked my screen trying to hit "quote" too hard with my stylus...

[Calendar]

Hey folks,

Just wanted to say that I'm really impressed with our progression lately. We've really been ramping up!

Let's keep up with the good work, we'll be checking gear, gems, enchants and specs to make sure that everyone is maximizing their potential.

So where do we go from here...

HARD MODES!!!

After discussing some of this with folks, here are the hard modes we will be pursuing in the very near future (i.e. starting this week).

Flame Leviathan +2

Activation: Leave Hodir's tower standing.

Fight Mechanics:

- Increases boss' health

- Causes white beams to follow players around

- The beams will fire a frost attack damaging players and entombing them (until freed by fire damage)

Strategy:

- We must improve our player catapult/pick-up rotation

- Devastors MUST use their Pyrite (which also means they must remain stocked up)

- We must have a better rotation between catapulting players and filling the Devestator's Pyrite supply

- Siege Engines must make better use of their Eltroshock disrupting ability

Where we Fail:

- Folks in Siege Engines don't interrupt using Electroshock

- Folks in Siege Engines suck at pre-emptively running away

- Folks DPSing turrets are not DPSers

- Folks DPSing turrents don't know how to use healthstones to stay alive

- Folks in Devestators don't know how to use their Pyrite or can't stay stocked up

XT-002

Activation: We must kill the heart (it has 7M health, takes double dmg and stays out for approximately 20s)

Fight Mechanics:

- Boss damage increased by 15%

- Health healed to full and increased by 60%

- No longer summons adds

- Gravity Bombs leave massive void zones that kill ppl

- Light Bombs leave a spark that damages the entire raid

Strategy:

- Entire raid will have to group up in roughly the same spot

- People with Gravity Bombs run left or right

- People with Light Bombs run left or right -> Sparks must be Tanked & DPS'd ASAP (Nature resist helps)

Where we Fail:

- People don't move fast enough once they get a debuff

Video:

Hodir

Activation: None required -- we just need to kill him fast enough

Fight Mechanics:

- He doesn't do anything different, we just got to change the way we kill him

Strategy:

- Tank Hodir in back right corner -- allows NPCs to congregate, simplifies releasing them

- Prioritize NPCs -- Mages and Shamans

- Players must actively seek buffs -- in particular the critical strike buff given by the Shaman NPCs

- We'll split range DPS into 2 groups so that we can maximize the spread of buffs

Where we Fail:

- We don't have enough DPS

Video:

Freya +1

Activation: Leave Elder Brightleaf standing.

Fight Mechanics:

- Increase magic damage dealt by Freya and her adds (by 60%).

- Gives Freya the ability to nuke players and nearby targets.

Strategy:

- No change to our previous tactics, we simply need to be more careful

- This is increases stress on healers

Where we Fail:

- Players stand on top of green seed on P2 and die

- Players DPS adds randomly and fail at killing them within 10s of each other

- Healers fail

GEAR CHECKS!!!

All players have till Thursday to perform the following tasks:

- Make sure all gear is properly enchanted

- Make sure all gem slots are filled

- Make sure all gear/talents/specs are up to snuff

If you fail to comply it's a -10DKP per missing gem, enchant or inappropriate talent.

We have players falling behind in their numbers, please make sure you maximize your DPS/heals/tanking. Players fulfilling 2 roles (i.e. Tanking and DPSing) are not excluded from this requirement. Being an OT is not an excuse for poor DPS on fights where you do absolutely no tanking.

Runed Orb Policy Change!!!

We have only a few people who haven't yet received their set of Orbs for their first item. Once that requirement is fulfilled we will no longer be supply folks with a full 6 Orbs for their second items. We will be giving only 3 orbs and it is up to the player to buy, trade or use badges to obtain the last 3.

So I hope this serves as a bit of a motivator for people. See you all at tomorrow's raid.

Zu

Edited July 27, 2009 by Calendar

[Karrock]

Is there a cutoff on the number of attempts per boss we are going to make before moving on?

K

[Markenhoof]

I for one would like to see the whole instance cleared before we attempt hard modes. General and Yogg are all we have left. The more time we have on General to practice the more likely we will be successful and able to get to Yogg. After that I am all for trying hard modes. If Mt. Hyjal had hard modes I doubt we would have stuck with it and killed Archimonde, which would have been a shame, as he was a great kill for our raid. Also the gear from General and Yogg (especially Yogg) may get a few people 4 piece bonuses and weapons that will aid in the hard modes. I view the hard mode bosses as something to keep us busy after we have finished an instance and before the next one is out. The gear is better, yes. But I personally would rather kill Yogg and be able to say we finished Ulduar then "hey we beat hard mode XT". In the next tier alot of those pieces will be replaced but the challenge of beating Ulduar might not compare with our first kill of Vashj or KT but, then can you remember the loot they dropped the first time?

One Tree's Opinion

[Calendar]

Here are some of the reasons we are starting on Hard Modes (there is no particular order to the points):

- I'm introducing Hard Modes as a means of tapping into our unspent raid potential.

- We are desperately racing through the starting bosses in an attempt to reach the ones that we're working on. If we opt to give an extra 5% or 10% effort instead of racing, we could potentially unlock better gear with minimal consequences to our schedule. If we find that a particular Hard Mode requires more effort than that, we'll move on, no harm done.

- The goal is to complete Ulduar and then exclusively move on to Hard Modes. There is no reason why both of these goals cannot be pursued in parallel. If we wait till the very end before attempting Hard Modes we'll have missed on many good opportunities at learning and improving our battle tactics.

- Some folks are totally uninterested in Hard Modes and are selfish enough to drop the raid once we consistently down Yogg. This approach prevents these folks from doing so.

- The truth is that despite our progress our performance has degraded. Also, we have individuals who are WAY under performing. Hard Modes will enable us to continue improving ourselves and help us identify our weak links (and address them).

And to address some of the concerns:

- We will not bash our faces on a boss until we achieve a Hard Mode kill. We will give each boss a couple of "good" attempts and then move on. At the very least we will adapt our raid tactics to match those of the Hard Mode achievement without engaging Hard Mode.

- The goal is to not "significantly" impact our schedule. If we fall too far behind than we will drop of the Hard Mode attempts. We will not however drop any attempts due to "stupid" wipes (i.e. people breaking CC on trash or tanks pulling too fast).

- We are not pursuing Hard Modes for the sake of getting Achievements. While initially I figured that the auxiliary Achievements would be a good intro to Hard Modes, it turns out that wiping on ###### that give us little to nothing in return isn't really worth it and makes people cranky.

[Calendar]

To add to my previous post regarding raid direction...

Raid Groupings!!!

Back in the SSC/TK days I used to prepare the raid roles and groupings for every boss fights. As time went on, I got lazy and raid leads took over the task. In order to be more proactive and hopefully help you guys figure out your roles a bit better I'm going to my old habits.

You can find all the boss fights and relevant roles on the following spreasheet:

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p3P...fvqeg&gid=3

Please study and figure out what you need to be doing and when!

Vault of Archivon

I'm taking a bit of an executive decision here...

Due to the limited benefit of doing VoA, this part of the raid will be cut off indefinitely.

Spending the necessary 40min of raid time getting to and from Wintergrasp for the opportunity of gaining 1 (and if we're lucky, 2) pieces of gear simply isn't worth it. Since the loot dropped from the Emalon is both class and role specific in most cases it gets junked.

VoA will remain a viable option if raiders can log on 20min earlier than raid start time OR if we are cutting the raid short OR if raiders are willing to pursue VoA after the raid end time.

Zu

[Tepheris]

Ok I agree with Markenhoof and Karrock. I think the instance as a whole on regular should be completed before we attempt hard mode on any of the bosses. Also I played this game for a long time before the achievments were implemented. However for the good of the raid I was willing to participate and do my best to help the raid progress.

Now we want to start hard mode?? To use our "untapped" raid potential? Hell a couple of nights ago we had a big issue with people not even wanting to flask regular! How much more "Raid potentioal" can you get when people won't even use a flask all the time? We are in fact wiping on bosses in regular mode still, yet you want to do the same boss in hard mode? Where is the logic in that? This will only end up using valuable time that could be used to first complete the instance as a whole on regular mode.

We also cant have constant replacements either.

Dont get me wrong I will be there week in and week out to do the raid however you see fit Zu, but I strongly disagree. I feel that us attempting this before we truly are ready and have beaten the instance will do more damge to the raid then you for see

Jestin

[Calendar]

Let me put it in simpler terms...

We have the gear.

We have the raiders.

Despite a few replacements here and there we have all that is needed to start pursuing this. I seriously doubt anyone would dispute those facts.

Why do we fail?

Because people don't pay attention.

Because people have been carried for all this time.

Because people would rather rely on others doing the homework for them.

Because people don't want to farm for repair money, flasks and pots.

Because people want automated raids, where they show up and do the exact same ###### every week without ever breaking the mold or striving to accomplish anything harder.

Not since Vashj have we collectively tried at accomplishing something that involves really pushing *everyone's* limit. We constantly have to rely on the same dozen or so folks to carry the other half!

Our raid seems to have an increased intolerance for wiping. The second we start doing a bit of head bashing, TS becomes a circus! Well guess what, wiping is an integral part of raiding and if someone can't handle it then they'll get replaced.

Personally what I find hard to tolerate during those wipes, is that the cause *ALWAYS* seems to revolve around the same individuals.

Hard Modes aren't meant to interfere with our schedule! And I'll try to manage our time to the best of my abilities to stay true to that. I will do whatever it takes to keep progressing the way we are now including *replacing players*. If I have to find us a new pally tank that keeps aggro, caster DPS that can put out numbers or melee that won't die to stupid ######, than so be it.

....and to be more specific on certain topics...

Also I played this game for a long time before the achievments were implemented

Hard Modes != Achievments, just because you get an achievement doesn't mean that is the sole reason for pursuing it (as I've stated before). It would seem some folks have developed an acute allergy to all things achievement related.

Now we want to start hard mode?? To use our "untapped" raid potential? Hell a couple of nights ago we had a big issue with people not even wanting to flask regular!

To put things clearly...We had a huge pow-wow in TS about folks not wanting to be perma-flasked during the raid. I was even considering be lenient on those folks, because the individuals in question are some of our first-class raiders.

I was eventually swayed by the argument about group effort, and how everyone should put in the same raid investment (yada yada yada...). The people in question were more than happy to follow suit and adhere to the new policy.

The irony here is that there are individuals screaming wolf about flasks when their ###### remains un-enchanted, un-gemmed and their skill level is mediocre at best. I'd love to see the kind of reactions we'd get from those folks when we put a microscope on them and start looking at their own inadequacies.

We are in fact wiping on bosses in regular mode still, yet you want to do the same boss in hard mode? Where is the logic in that?

Like I said we wipe not because of gear, not because of attendance but simply because of inadequate player skill.

Do you *truly* think that a few more tokens or weapons are gonna make a night and day difference when we start Hard Modes? I think not! Better player discipline, improved awareness, increased skills and fight familiarity are what we need to succeed.

Edited July 27, 2009 by Calendar

[Waldonnis]

To those who don't understand the logic behind at least starting to attempt hard-modes, let's look at the bigger picture for a second and also look back at recent history. We're on the brink of 3.2 already, which introduces new content...and will undoubtedly add pressure within the raid to enter the new content. Assuming we kill Y-S a few times before then (unlikely, but it's possible), what then? Do we move entirely into the new raid tier never having seen Algalon at all or even attempting hard modes in Ulduar? Also, consider how interest will wane to do anything in Ulduar once the first few Y-S kills are done and we have the opportunity to go into the Colisseum. Doubt that'll happen? Tell me, then, did we ever finish Sarth3D...or even try it once Ulduar came out? No, and mostly because nobody wanted to "backtrack" any longer. This will not change simply because "Ulduar is not Sartharion". I'm sure some would still like to get Sarth3D deadified (myself included), but by and large, nobody cares because it's "yesterday's content" and there's nothing really to gain.

Fact is, people get bored/complacent rather rapidly without any challenges or changes to the status quo. I'd love a Y-S kill just as much as anyone else in the raid, if not moreso, but it's not a true "full clear" without at least some tries on Algalon...and we're A LONG WAY from that EVER happening if we don't at least start to try some of these hard modes and get used to them. This really comes down asking yourself why you raid: if it's for the challenge or to experience content fully, then hard modes should be a welcome addition, as each presents unique challenges that can alter encounter dynamics significantly (and you won't be able to see all of the content without them). If you want easy modes and a loot train, well, I don't know what to tell you other than the fact that you're missing out on some extra loot opportunities by passing them up. Either way, a kick in our complacency is warranted and I agree with Zu: this is a good way to do exactly that.

Not long ago in this thread, I saw people groaning about Ulduar nerfs and how they felt it might make the instance "easy"...if we want a challenge, we should stop avoiding those challenges and at least see how much we can push ourselves as a raid to overcome some of the ones that are available to us right now. Given some of the hard mode encounters, attempting several of them will undoubtedly force us to improve our coordination and awareness anyway if we hope to beat them...and that will just make Y-S and other future encounters that much easier to deal with. FL and XT are "warmups" and there to measure preparedness...the rest are significantly rougher (and some involve a certain amount of RNG). May as well sharpen our teeth on those for starters and see what comes of it. As for me, I want a challenge, not easy-mode content forever...

[Tepheris]

Wait wait... I missed where getting to and beating the General and Yogg was to easy?? Did I miss a couple weeks when you guys put those to on farm? Zu, my point is how do you expect to push people and do all this when we cant do it right for the "Easy mode" stuff. Also please no one be offended. This is just my opion and mine alone....

Jestin

[Martok]

Untapped Raid Potential!!! That is code word for replace about 6 people.

I'm all for trying some hard mode bosses. There is tasty gear there. I did NOT, however, sign up to wipe endlessly on freaking XT002 for hard mode or for an achievement. Few attempts and move on (we'll hold you to it). I don't want to spend 2 nights of raiding and only get to Hodir. You say people are getting more intolerant to wipes, and threaten to replace us. In the very next line, you mention the reason we are wiping is due to the same people. So, we should not be mad about those same people causing us to wipe? Bull. If you think I'm not gonna dish some hate about the same freaking people wiping us endlessly please replace me now. Those same people have been let to do it over and over and over and over .........

Every few weeks you do the "We're gonna boot you from the raid, SHAPE UP!" but then it all dies down to the same old stuff of watching the same people die...etc....

[Calendar]

Every few weeks you do the "We're gonna boot you from the raid, SHAPE UP!" but then it all dies down to the same old stuff of watching the same people die...etc....

You're 100% right on that Uglutz. The truth is that there is a cost to replacing any one person in the raid. Instead of investing in that cost I typically try to approach the people in question. I make sure they are aware of the situation and suggest ways for them to improve.

In most cases, improvement is seen a couple of weeks thereafter. However, old habits die hard and people fall back to their old behaviors.

Hell, after this series of posts and the fallout chatter in TS, it wouldn't surprise me to see our performance suddenly improve (as if by magic). Consequently it makes it hard for me to stay true to my threats.

When it comes to raiders, fixing is way better than replacing.

My threats will eventually get ignored, folks will stop listening to them and no improvements will occur. I know this will happen and on that day the folks who've been complacent will find themselves without a raid spot.

Few attempts and move on (we'll hold you to it). I don't want to spend 2 nights of raiding and only get to Hodir.

Once again I completely agree with you. But I also ask folks to be considerate, we're giving it a try and our timing might be off at first. Progress to Y-S is top priority. The greater shame here is we don't at least give it a try and see.

I've stated many times that I don't want this to impact our regular schedule in Ulduar.

Edited July 28, 2009 by Calendar