Grimgor

While it's not an express goal for these events, I think we'll end up hitting just about everywhere over time. What we hit will depend on who and how many we have. Also, the hit and run nature of our engagements will mean we'll avoid being too obvious and threatening (to avoid tipping our hand as we set up for a target). Remember that the Alliance outnumbers us around 3 to 1. It's not cowardice, it's just the most effective way to fight and cut down their numbers advantage if we have them doing a lot of guessing and piecemeal work.

Thanks everyone for the enjoyable night of killin'! We'll be heading back to them this coming Monday (likely will adjust to a semi-weekly schedule over time, but for now... ), so be there! EDIT (thanks Fomor) -- That's Monday July 10 @ 9:15 @ Orgrimmar's gates.

Free DKP for anyone who won something in last night's MC run! (seriously, good to hear, gal... can only imagine what that "wait-and-see" must have been like)

Because I know what it's like to be in an asking position as leader, Maube, I wanted to give you some positive feedback on this. Also, I would support you if the raid(s) you led matured to the point where you could insist that raid members have both TS and CTRaid. I am an old hand at system configuration (I am an IT guy who got his start in the most basic of ways and worked up through the ranks) and can totally understand the notion of keeping a system clean. I know because I practice this, including with WoW. But I don't want to be a nail in the tire either. And so it is that I have CTRaid. Happily, CTRaidAssist itself is light on system resources, is a single mod, and perhaps best of all, is not a pain in the hind end when it comes patch time because the CTMod people are always sure to put a new version out right away.

I guess my point is that fast or slow only affects 1 thing for you as a tank: Heroic Strike. All your other tools for aggro management are on timers that are independent of speed. How often is HS used compared to Shield Slam/Block and Revenge? I know raw dps and such is not really the point of a tank weapon, but more damage still does translate to more hate generation. This isn't some pressure campaign to try to get you to "buy my hammer" ... heh, but I guess the compelling part of this is I want to be part of the solution. I know the Persuader isn't exactly a "tanking hammer" since it doesn't have any of the prized +stam or +def/armor bonuses, but as a good dps weapon, I was thinking it could serve well. I could be wrong -- as I am not and probably will never be a raid MT -- but I do play warriors and I guess I am trying to see if there's a compelling argument against my current assumptions and understandings.

I was not happy about that, and was even MORE unhappy when I saw the patch notes. Check that, it was a patch NOTE. I am still a fan of the Blizzard, but WoW -- for all that I enjoy it -- has cost them a large portion of my respect for them as a top-rated outfit.

And so we come full circle. Greenbull may well have thought about this before our conversation but I mentioned a hammer that I think he'd enjoy using. It's a recipe that I recently had the fortune to obtain, and it's exactly the sort of weapon you're talking about with the +hit and +crit bonuses: http://www.thotbott.com/?i=53315 Still, there's better dps on one-handers but they're usually the ones that you have to be kitted out to be there anyway.

Thanks for the notice and interest, folks. Spread the word.

Yeah who was that? Greenbull, I know we discussed this in whisper the other day as we ducked and parried against Onyxia (or was it MC? Feh). As I read over your first few links I started to ask "Why not Quel Serrar?" but then I saw your answer to that as I read on. I don't know man... compared to those daggers and such, Quel Serrar seems the logical choice. It's a tanking weapon, pure and simple. Stamina, an armor proc, and good swing speed (not a dagger speed but still, 2.00 is fast). Blackguard would be a good choice too, but I think that's going to prove a rare bird to hunt. I found some others for your consideration: http://www.thotbott.com/?i=52961 http://www.thotbott.com/?i=52228 http://www.thotbott.com/?i=52801 http://www.thotbott.com/?i=40784 Since a couple of these are slower than you seem to want, a note about slow swing speeds. I am pretty sure the conventional wisdom says that fast is better, but that doesn't mean I am convinced that's totally correct. The math works about the same, and as for faster Heroic Strikes, okay... but when you crit, you crit bigger, and you always have shield block/revenge and slam. I am not convinced the faster HS speed is much of a consideration, since all else is on different timers.

At last, we are ready to visit some pain and punishment on the Alliance, and I can tell that you are too. Come, join us. We are first gathering on: Monday July 3 at 9:15pm in Orgrimmar We'll assemble and organize there, and then head out and give those Alliance some trouble they won't forget, for this marks the first of a long string of agonies for them. All Skullcrushers of at least 20 seasons* are welcome. No formal signups for now, but do feel free to sound off here so we can get in the spirit! And if you wish to bring others along, clear it first with Odenn or me, but otherwise they are welcome. I hear the Shamans need some Gnome ears for some incense or stew or something. Let's not disappoint! Hrar! * -- We'll find a place for you low-ranking soldiers, but just understand the more experienced you are, the less restricted in role you will be. Still, come if you have the heart to help, for that is what is most valuable.

I don't have ambitions to create major campaigns just yet (three-pronged assaults on Alliance capitals is probably out of reach for our outnumbered Horde population anyway). Consider this a private war that could become part of the ever-growing Horde/Alliance conflict. As such, our tactics will be of a "hit and fade" nature, in favor of striking an objective and bringing it down before any real defense is put up, then moving on. Imagine the havoc that a few small teams can cause by striking multiple places at once, then speeding off into the surrounding hills/forest/plains to hit another objective, then turning to another target (or swapping targets with another team) and/or returning to a previous target. The idea here is that the attackers are gone before the first wave of real defenders arrive at the initial targets, and when the defenders move to react to the subsequent attacks, they find themselves arriving late to those targets too. At the logical and/or emotional end of this plan, there's certainly room to finish out the night's action with a good old-fashioned straight-up slugfest. Of course, as with all plans, contact with the enemy and their reactions (and not a little luck of circumstance) can change those plans at a moment's notice, but my feeling there is that since I want to start with a smaller and simpler plan the first few times, we'll be forming a group of experienced raiders that will increasingly be able to take on new companions and train them on the go. Such a group will also be increasingly more capable of managing upsets to the timetables and plans. To sum up, I intend to start simple and get as complex as our people want to go. Should be fun.

Why, the Cleveland Steamers, of course.

I've been brewing this idea for a few weeks now, promising those in my Sons and elsewhere that action was coming. Various factors have gotten in my way -- a need to organize and inform, Maube's vacation, and a couple other things -- but now is the time to start. For those of you who don't know, Volonazra and I worked out an alliance between the Skullcrushers and the Sons shortly before he left, a pact that Maube recognized and formalized in agreement as she took the mantle of the new Chieftain. The intent of this alliance was to build a relationship between our WoW guilds that preserved (and rebuilt) interest in and activity with RP, as well as more closely align ourselves for the other things that WoW guilds do, such as raiding. This is what I hope will be the first and brightest example of the fruit of that pact: some RP-based PvP action taken against Alliance targets. Those familiar with the long standing RP stance of the Sons of Draenorwill note this is a significant change in outlook -- suffice it to say our long sufferance has ended with the long history of attacks that has been escalating steadily to concerted attacks on our leaders and infrastructure in the Horde. Our characters' patience is at an end. The good news is... this means fighting! THE PLAN The gist of the concept is a regular, possibly weekly hit-and-run style joint attack pattern hurled against a set of targets designated by me and/or an appointed leader, involving multiple teams operating in a concerted effort that should not only prove to be edge-of-the-seat fun for us, but confusing and frustrating for our opponents. Here's some outlined plans I have already made. Another bit of good news: the nature of our missions will allow practically all level ranges (20+ for sure) to participate in some degree. I know that not everyone reads forums, so I will be looking to Odenn to get this word out in game so that we have the largest audience possible. Look for me in game... I'll make myself available if at all possible (and if I can't I'll schedule a time when I can be free).

Very nice. While that gear certainly is exciting, I have to voice a little discontent with it too. How much more powerful do the weapons need to be? Do they have to be twice as powerful as the gear that the casual gamers can wield? What happens when someone wielding these weapons begins rampaging through Orgrimmar with a crack team of PvPers and a guy like me moves to intercept them and answer the call of defense? I guess I'd just prefer to see the increases in weapon damage as the quality goes up to have a diminishing returns effect, so that the item disparity doesn't make anyone a completely unfair combatant. Because with the way it works, as long as they have more DPS, that's enough for bragging rights. It doesn't have to be 2x what everyone else has to be proud of it.

Zultar Stormhammer knelt before the smoldering embers, watching the wisp of smoke get blown by the gusty wind into a cloud that filled the firepit and escaped into the early morning air in untidy tufts of gray. Wearing a sneer on his craggy Orc face, he glowered at the dying fire. Even as a Shaman who waged his battles primarily with the use of the Elements, he was an imposing figure. Bedecked with the various trinkets and tools of his Shamanhood over the hard glint of runed thorium, Zultar crouched there. Waiting. Thinking. Angry. As if they could sense his mood, the other Sons of Draenor toiling around the camp kept their distance as they prepared their gear for the day. He allowed them to pay such deference, letting the logic of it cut into his raging emotions. The night before had been all too telling. Times were changing, again, and it made his heart burn with a seething anger that made him want to mount up and visit retribution. But there was a voice still inside, telling him that he could not, that he would not. Zultar, Shaman of the Horde, and Captain of the Sons of Draenor was second only to his Chief. Grimgor had not yet awoken, but he needed his counsel. He didn't want to share his frustration with the others. It was not appropriate. So, as he had been doing for the better part of the early dawn hours, he sat and tried to focus what he could on the fire and its entrancing qualities. It wasn't working. As if on cue, he heard the flap of cured skin and turned his head to see Grimgor, wearing his full armor as usual, step sure-footed out into the crisp air. Zultar thought he saw someone else inside but a wisp of smoke obscured his vision and the flap had fallen back before he could get a good look. A twinkle of amusement touched his eyes and the corner of his mouth as he rose to greet his old friend. An overnight guest? Good for him. Grimgor spotted his Captain rising from his perch at the fire and crossed straight to him, the look on the Chief's face full of purpose. Without mirth, Grimgor solemnly greeted his friend and trusted Shaman with his customary fist-slam on Zultar's shoulder pauldrons. "Old friend." Caught in Grimgor's spell, Zultar nodded solemnly in return. "My Chief." A silence pregnant with expectation had siezed the camp. The other Sons bustling about had stopped their work and looked on, having seen the way Grimgor had stepped from his tent. Only the sizzle of the fire and the random rat-a-tat of heavy field insects flapping about could be heard. For a long time, Grimgor just stared into Zultar's eyes, cool blue into dark brown. The warrior's nostrils flared as he visibly warred with something within. Mastering himself? Zultar guessed silently. At last, Grimgor blinked, slowly, and turned his gaze to the camp. "Long have the Sons been dedicated to preserving the pact of agreement between the Horde, the Night Elves, and the Humans' Alliance. It was not the fear of confrontation that stayed our hands, but the call of Wisdom. Wisdom that told us that by giving in to the old hatreds and conflicts between our people, we were playing into the plans of the Burning Legion. They are the true enemy. We have treated with them, marched peacefully on their cities to show our intent. And now this..." Grimgor bared his teeth for a moment as the rage he held inside briefly showed itself. Fighting it back down, he clamped his mouth shut for a few precious seconds. "We are of the Horde first and foremost. Those of the Alliance has shown themselves time and again to be ignorant of this pact that allowed us to save our world. Worse yet, their leadership has not seen fit to curb this trend. "I have seen a storm coming for a long time, and the observant ones among you have seen it in me. They have shed blood at Crossroads such that the ground there is now a permanent red. They have assaulted our cities, and now boldly strike at the very heart of our workings on a consistent basis. Last night, noble Cairne of our Tauren brethren was attacked visciously. It was only by the efforts of our brave defenders who heard the call that he was saved at the last moment." The Chief pounded a plated fist into his chest. "How dare they!! We in the Sons have persevered! Some have thought us pacifists, but still we held our stance that we fight the truer enemies of the Horde. Fighting and waiting, hoping to inspire. How dare they attack our cities and murder our leaders?! "No more. By their own foolishness, they have shown themselves to be as great a threat to the survival of the Horde as any demon-spawn of the Legion or abomination of the Scourge. I will no longer allow their predations to go unpunished. Let there be no mistake, I still hope that they will wake up and see their foolishness, but now we will visit upon them punishment for their transgressions. Punishment, my kin. That is what we will give them. They deserve it, and they will get it from us at last. My way. If war comes, so be it." Breathing heavily from his vent of anger, Grimgor finally nodded to signal that he was done. The Sons and Daughters of Draenor grimly nodded in return. They knew what this meant. Turning to Zultar, he said in a low voice, "Gather what troops we have. We attack at sunset. I will drop in on Chief Maube of the Skullcrushers and consummate our alliance there." Zultar nodded grimly but enthusiastically and trotted off bellowing orders. "We may not have thousands at our call," Grimgor whispered to himself, "but I know how to make them take notice." (( Skullcrushers, you and the Sons are allies, and now that I am back in my routine from the new kid being born, it's time to make good on this agreement. I will be in touch with your leadership in the coming days to plan the events that accompany this story. ))

Upon hearing the news, Grimgor Foe-render narrowed his eyes and reflected upon its various meanings. He didn't thank the Initiate that had burst into his small camp, but then he didn't have to. Gracing the Troll with a nod he rose from his perch on the sun-heated rock and tightened his armor. He stowed his axe on his back and called to Gharr, his loyal wolf. The other Sons noticed, regarding him with silence, the same question evident on all their faces. Grimgor thought at first that he would not tell them -- but they deserved better. "Volonazra will soon leave this world, bound for what I am sure he intends will be Draenor. Though I fear for him, it is not why I go. What is beyond the portal is beyond my reach, and there is much to do yet here." The Chief of the Sons briefly curled his lip up in a snarl as he gazed grimly out onto the shimmering horizon. "We just became allies, the Skullcrushers and the Sons. The dust hasn't yet settled from the gathering where we made that official. I go to seek him... and possibly their new leaders." He fell silent. Pausing to consider his words, Grimgor decided that was enough to say for now. Spurring his wolf, he sped off into the morning light, a wake of dust obscuring his path. (( Sad to see you go, Volonazra. We share a lot of concerns between our two guilds. I hope that your vision lives on in another. I hope to find you again before you leave for good. ))

With only the occasional lazy buzz of a nearby insect to keep him company an Orc warrior, clad in his armor, knelt and bowed beside a rock and contemplated as the midday sun blasted down on him and the surrounding plains. He did this often, sometimes finding solace. Other times, like this time, he could not seem to find what he sought. After a disturbingly long period of time trying in vain to focus inward, he felt the cool of a shadow pass over him. Opening his eyes and lifting his head, the Orc squinted up expecting to see someone. He did not. Peering about, he saw no one around. He stood then, letting his gaze roam the wavering horizon, wondering at what had happened. "My Chief." The familiarity of the voice reached him before the surprise did, and so Grimgor was not alarmed. It was a voice he had heard many times. Without turning to look at his friend, he asked, "What is it, Wulfgor?" When silence greeted his question, he offered, "Not enough trouble to be had in Feralas? You are back earlier than I expected." Wulfgor's deep voice rumbled out a growl. Or was it another sound? "I have completed my task there. My brother, Deohawk, he has sufficient gold for his Kodo mount now." "And now you wish a challenge." "Yes." Grimgor, Chief of the Sons of Draenor, turned and took a good look at his old friend. Wulfgor was rugged as ever, his hood drawn back to reveal numerous scars earned over all the trials he had faced since taking the Hunter's path. Like Grimgor's own scarred plate, Wulfgor's mail was pitted and scuffed but his tabard, prominently displaying the symbol of the Horde, shone out in bold, unmistakable colors. The way the Orc stood at ease under the inspection -- informal though it was-- his eyes scanning their surroundings as they always did, made the Chief's eyes tighten in a brief moment of mirth. As always, Wulfgor was an example of the sort Grimgor needed in the Sons. That was why he was Champion. "What do you know of Clan Skullcrusher?" asked Grimgor. "Some. They seem to be sound and loyal to the Warchief. My experience with them is not what I would consider complete, but if you asked me to fight alongside them, I would do so without hesitation." Grimgor was silent for a long time, his gaze returning to the horizon. It was a long time before anyone spoke. "Why do you ask, Chief?" Grimgor blinked, then turned his head and gave his Champion a snaggle-toothed smile. "Because I seek a challenge, too, as do the rest of the Sons."