Sony Online & LucasArts offer their thoughts on CU

[Balandar]

From http://pc.ign.com/articles/610/610552p1.html

Star Wars Galaxies

Sony Online and LucasArts offer their thoughts on the recent combat upgrade.

by Steve Butts

May 5, 2005 - Last Thursday, the players of Star Wars Galaxies were finally able to experience the long-awaited combat upgrade. Within a few hours, we were swamped with hundreds of letters from players who were all unanimous in their disappointment and frustration with the new upgrade. While we're used to the illiterate rants that normally fill our inboxes, we grew more suspicious as we discovered that nearly all of the letters about the Star Wars Galaxies combat upgrade were refreshingly articulate and outwardly sincere.

The basic complaints seem to be that the new system changes the style of the game and is itself unbalanced. While we'll be offering our own views on the matter shortly, we decided to get in touch with the folks at LucasArts and Sony Online to find out just how they perceive these issues.

On hand were LucasArts producer Julio Torres, Sony Online producer Dallas Dickinson, and Sony marketing manager Debysue Wolfcale.

IGNPC: To be honest, we haven't had this much reader feedback on a single issue for as long as I can remember. For the Combat Upgrade, what do you feel are the main issues that need to be addressed?

Julio Torres: The first obvious issue that's impacting our players is that it's a fundamental change. Players, specifically our hardcore players who've been playing for 20 months, have to relearn how to play. What they're used to doing, what's familiar and what they've been having fun, is now not there. It's quite a shock to have such a huge dynamic change in what you used to be doing every singe day. Now we're asking them to change. I think that that's by far one of our biggest challenges, to get them past the painful thought of "Oh my god, why do I have to do this differently?" so they can actually see what the changes will give them in terms of benefits. That's definitely a huge hurdle. That's the top one.

Then of course, there are the other particular issues which are, once we release it to the public and actually have enough people to actually do testing on it -- as opposed to our local testers where we just have many 30-40 people -- new issues arise that can only happen in that test bed which we obviously identify as bugs. What we need to do is tackle those bugs, communicate that we're handling those bugs and let the players understand that, with their help, we will be polishing the changes that are in there that are not intended because of the bugs. I think that that communication needs to be constant and flowing so that they understand that, in the longest run or the shortest run (meaning as fast as we can) the game will settle and all these people who are participating can enjoy it.

Dallas Dickinson: The thing to keep you eye on here is that we did make a fundamental change to the way the game was being played, but we made it for a very good reason. We made it because we felt that the existing combat system was not going to serve the game going forward. We believe we put in a far more interactive, a far more intuitive combat system, and they are going to be some growing pains as people adjust to it. I think Julio was speaking to this at the beginning. Because it is a new system, especially when you're a veteran player and you have a whole lot of high-level skills you use in combat, it's going to take you a while to use the new system.

There's already a huge shift among our players. They're saying, "I actually get it now. I'm starting to understand how to use my new skills." The immediate reaction was "Oh my gosh! I can't play anymore. I don't know how to play. I either always win or I always lose." People are now seeing that the system is a complex or as deep, I should say, as the previous system; it's just different. They're learning that now.

The people I've been playing with, especially over the last two or three nights--We've had some really cool events where we've run around with players to see how they play. They are all, to a person, saying it took a couple of days to figure out, but they're seeing the benefits of it. They're seeing the interactivity of the combat system as compared to the previous one and they're really enjoying it.

Debysue Wolfcale: Over the last 12 months, both LucasArts and Sony have invested in significant amounts of satisfaction research with players, both current and former. A lot of what we did was based on that research, on the finding that people are drawn to the game, because it's Star Wars and they really want to feel more engaged in the fun of the Star Wars adventure. What we did was say, "Let's make combat more fun and less mechanical. Let's take away some of the distraction that people have to get through and let them walk into the fight and click once and start battling something really fun."

Secondly, the aspect of people joining together in groups is more a focus than it was in the game prior to this. That was driven by the finding that the number one reason people enjoy playing the game is that they're here to play with others. They play other single player games and they play those as single player. When they come to this game, they want the fun and the camaraderie and the fun and star wars feeling of being in grand scale battles with other people.

Those are the things that we were thinking about and trying to bring more of those benefits into the experience of the game.

IGNPC: But the new group focus means that it's harder for players to play solo.

Dallas Dickinson: I think that's a common misconception. It's certainly slightly harder for you to solo. We're certainly going to try to make it more worth your while to be in a group. You can play more efficiently if you are a power gamer if you're in a group. We think that's the right way to handle it. Previously, you could really inspire pure solo, indestructible play. We removed that. It's very hard to be invincible now, whereas it was very easy in the past to do so. We're asking you to join in groups, but you can still play viably as a solo. You just progress slightly more slowly.

IGNPC: How does that apply to Jedi? Jedi have serious penalties for grouping, so it seems that in the new system, the players who have in most cases invested the more time and energy into the game are finding it hard to level up on their own and attacked by bounty hunters when they join up in groups.

Dallas Dickinson: We are looking at Jedi. Jedi are certainly an area where we have some balance issues that we're totally aware of. When I see complaints on the boards and issues raised up to me about Jedis, they're valid concerns and we're working hard.

The thing to understand about Jedi is that it's a separate system from the rest fo the game and it's meant to be. We can address their problems separately, and we will. It should not interact as much with the rest of the population. If you know where we stand in the timeline, Jedi aren't supposed to be hugely involved with the rest fo the player base. We're addressing those and those are some of our highest priority issues. The Players who play Jedi are very vocal and very committed, and they're seeing a little bit of strain right now. It's valid, and we're working on those problems.

IGNPC: What about the separate damage options offered by the HAM system? I liked being able to target separate aspects of my enemy's health. Why did you guys do away with that?

Dallas Dickinson: This goes back to the point Debysue was making about the game being more accessible. It also led to tremendous imbalance in the game. For instance, there were maximal strategies that were found that were undefeatable. This goes back to the invincible question. You could have a group of people who were only concentrating on the mind pool of something, and you could take it down without risk at all, and the reward would be out of line with the risk you were taking.

For the non-hardcore player, it was extremely confusing. Some attacks would make the green bar move, some would make the red bar move, some would make the blue bar move. There was no real understanding of that until you were a high level player. This was a choice to make the game a little more accessible, and it allows us, as game designers, to balance content a lot more readily.

This is the other huge benefit to the combat upgrade. We previously had a platform for which it was very difficult to develop compelling, Star Wars-feeling, story-driven content, which is what Debysue was speaking to. Players want to feel like they're part of the star wars history, of the adventure. The way the combat system worked before, it was hard to develop anything that was compelling that wasn't either completely unwinnable or entirely too easy. By focusing on one health bar and using the other two to perform actions, we can actually tune our content a whole lot better.

Though you didn't ask about this, this is why we brought the group sizes more in line with a combat group. We can create content for eight people, all of whom have diverse abilities and skills. It was actually really hard to create combat content that was compelling for 20 people, especially if all of them were TK masters. They would just walk in and destroy whatever was there. I understand that existing players like that complexity; that complexity has been moved over to the strategy of your actions and the use of your action pool. People are discovering that.

The immediate reaction was what you were talking about where you could do these cool things to destroy the mind pool of a creature. Now you'll have to start making decisions about which moves you use, based upon the state of the creature, the state of your party members, range and the use of your action pool. It's a much more interactive way to play the game, and it's a lot easier for us to develop compelling content.

Julio Torres: I just want to follow up with a short sentence about that, because I think this is key, key, key as far as the changes to the combat system. We wanted to engage people with their abilities and their professions so that what they do matters. Now, the focus is more on how you're going to tackle the creature with everyone around you, as opposed to just letting the combat take care of itself. That's not as engaging and doesn't have any longevity.

The key is to focus everybody on the creature or the NPC so they can focus on their actions and their professions, as opposed to worrying about where to get their next buff so they can go play without worrying about stuff. That's contrary to what we want for Star Wars.

IGNPC: You mentioned the focus on professions. It's interesting that this combat upgrade spills over to affect other professions. What are entertainers supposed to do, now that the mind pool doesn't take damage in combat?

Dallas Dickinson: We already have and will continue to extend the inspiration buff system. The entertainer's interaction with the combat classes will have a lot to do with that particular mechanic. One of the issues that the players have had that we've addressed with the combat upgrade is the ability of someone to create a buffbot entertainer. Most people didn't like that. They were just used to it as a way to get a sense of healing. We deliberately said we didn't want them to just be buffbots; we wanted entertainers to actually be entertainers and have people actually enjoy playing the game, rather than just creating character in order to grind it up. Julio actually plays as an entertainer, so he can probably respond better to it.

Julio Torres: [Laughs] It was my favorite profession when I started this game. Specifically, the inspiration buff gives the entertainer the ability to enhance the experience for the combatants. That's our first step, one of more to come, that will allow an entertainer to interact with a combatant and give them a buff that will enhance your experience, because with it you'll get a little more experience when you're out there. Obviously, if they kill something, that will increase their progression. It will give them the ability to have a better chance to getting loot. Third, if you're a crafter and you want to craft something and get some experimentation, it gives you a higher rate of success to produce a product or item at the end. That's the first stage for it and it's a step forward.

I'm not going to disagree with the community by commenting against the fact that we should do more with the entertainer and we will. We do have publishes in the future that will enhance them further.

Debysue Wolfcale: I think it's fair to say that the combat upgrade was about combat and upgrading the fun factor of combat. It wasn't an entire game upgrade. There are always elements of the game we need to continue to polish and many things that change because they're so interrelated. When we started it, we wanted to demystify the combat experience so more people can participate and have fun, and we wanted to make it feel more like Star Wars. That's what we're hearing from players. That's what they like about this game, and that's what brings them in. That's what we need to deliver on.

IGNPC: Sure, but if you really want to make the game more like Star Wars, it seems like you're taking a step back from that and making the game more generic, more like EverQuest or World of Warcraft -- the new single health statistic, entertainers now acting more like bards. To some players, it seems that some of the things that made Star Wars distinct have been stripped away in favor of making the experience more conventional.

Dallas Dickinson: Let's clarify. When we say we want to make it feel more like Star Wars, what we're saying is that we want to make it feel more like the movies, which is what the general player wants. It sounds like you're saying we're making it less like Star Wars Galaxies, the game that's been out there for a while. We're certainly making it less like the Galaxies that you're used to, but those two things aren't in conflict. When we say we're making it more like Star Wars, we want to feel like we're Rebels running away from the Empire, doing really cool things to affect the Galactic Civil War and interacting with Han Solo and Princess Leia, and they're going to give me really cool missions. We're not talking about how different it is from the mechanics of certain other MMOs.

Julio Torres: In addition, the entertainer's perception of bards, that would pretty much go against any kind of Star Wars fantasy. A perception of that might come across from a miscommunication that we need to clarify. The ability to enhance a combatant in this game is really not like a bard, who speeds you up, gives you more strength, or buffs you in a particular direction.

It's more like a mind-easing process. If you go to the cantina and someone plays music for you or dances, the fantasy is that you'll feel better out there because you won't be as stressed. When you're out there, you just become more effective. They're not acting like a bard as much as they are something that is more therapeutic. I think that's the angle we want to go for with the entertainers. They definitely aren't needed out in the field. If you're a dancer, you can't go out there and dance while someone is fighting and participate in that way. That's fundamentally different, and we're not going to change that.

Dallas Dickinson: I would argue that the previous incarnation of what entertainers did was very much like the bard system. You would go there for a dancer buff, and the dancer buff would be something that would give you a combat advantage. We're going to be giving people something that's a little more subtle and much more in keeping with the Star Wars idea of the cantina being the place to be to make you feel better in the world.

Julio Torres: To move away from the entertainer and make a point that I feel is really important for people to understand, the movies are about groups working together to get enormous, important things done. The Rebels get together in the most unlikely situations and conquer things and they do it in a way that, in the end, people are cheering and waving their arms. That's the kind of experience that we want to put together with the grouping that we've done.

We want people to be encouraged to get together to finish these quests -- as opposed to the process of the first cycle of the combat system, where people were not as encouraged because soloing was a lot easier. In some sense, we're trying to bring our game in line with what the movie experience is. Hopefully, when people experience that and actually play it in game, that'll resonate and make them feel like they get it.

IGNPC: But even assuming most players want to fight in groups, not all players want to partake in the combat system. You have individual artisans and crafters who need to ply their trade too. How can they hope to survive lone trips out to gather resources?

Dallas Dickinson: To generally respond to that, we still know that crafting is one of the things that makes Star Wars different, and we're not going to change that. We do have a really diverse gameplay experience for players. We're supporting the entertainers in the same way that we're giving more to the combat folks. In the same way, we're going to give the same things to the crafting folks.

Specific to the crafting issue, we're dealing with a real problem. Players who are playing the crafting game are, for all practical intents and purposes, invincible and are able to harvest resources in the Ancient Krayt Dragon Field. That's not what we intended. We're going to be changing that experience for some people, people who have found their way around the game design in order to have a much higher crafting experience than should be available to them. That said, we're going to be offering a number of things to the crafters in the very near future that will still make it viable for them to go out there depending on their crafting level.

We also think that if you're going to go and harvest the most essential resource on Dathomir, right next to the witches, you're going to have to bring a friend, or you're going to have to have some form of defense. In the fiction of the world, that's a dangerous place. Right now, for crafters, it isn't, and we think that's against the central design of the game. We're making some changes that are going to make it harder for you to get rare resources but that actually enhance the crafting game. Because, when you have them, they're really valuable.

Julio Torres: Right, so now someone who's a powerful and strong crafter is going to have friends that will let them get the highest, most incredible stuff which is worth the effort and will give them the elite status they deserve. That doesn't mean that crafters can't craft or that we've taken away the ability to get good resources that will enhance them. People who want to be the masters now have a chance to prove through the system that they can be and will be. They will be noted as such in the game, and I think that's really necessary. We need to have all those levels in there, and this system gives them back.

IGNPC: While we're on the subject of items, how are you compensating players who have invested a lot of time or money in items that they can't use now?

Dallas Dickinson: I'm going to chalk this one up to a misconception. We changed the statistics on almost all the items that interact with the combat game, but we kept their relative values the same. If I was making the number one, top of the line blaster, it's still the number one, top of the line blaster. We just made the spread of the value much more reasonable. As you know, you can get the number one, top of the line blaster and it would make you invincible. It would, in fact, be orders of magnitude better than other blasters. We brought them into a standard deviation, but we kept the relative value the same. If someone wants to that number one, top of the line blaster, they still have to talk to that same guy who built the number one, top of the line blaster. It just happens that it won't make them ten times more effective in combat; it's going to make them a percentage more effective. For the hardcore player, that's still valuable. You still want to have the best weapon.

IGNPC: Is there a similar issue behind the new armor certifications?

Dallas Dickinson: Actually, the armor certification has another issue that we addressed very well. There was just one maximal version of armor. Everyone had that one armor. We wanted to make it so that some armors were better for some classes and were better for certain situations, and some armors were better for other classes and were better for other situations, so there was not an optimal strategy. The optimal strategy was what everyone wore. You saw everyone wearing the same armor and fighting in the same armor.

In fact, if you were an armor smith, that was the only thing you could make. Now there are actually a lot of choices for armor smiths. You can make very specialized things for players. That gives you more value as a crafter, because you're not competing with everyone in the world who are all making the exact same armor. This allows you to carve out a niche. It's an enhancement to the crafting game and makes crafters with specific skills much more valuable to a player association, to a city and to the game generally.

IGNPC: Let's talk about the practical implementation of the upgrade. Why did you guys decide to go live with it when you did?

Dallas Dickinson: We've been testing it for a full month, both internally and on the test center. We were simply not at the point of getting enough feedback from people. A number of things had come out, and we had fixed all of them. It's a tiered thing when you're working on a massively multiplayer game. The number of eyes you have on any system, especially one as fundamentally large as the combat system, that increases the rate at which issues are borough to the surface. We weren't getting enough new issues, so we had to bring it out in front of the community, take some pain (which we have), and get the real issues brought to our attention. That's the process we're going through right now. Issues are reported to us, and we're responding to them as fast as we can, but we had to go live in order for us to see these issues.

IGNPC: Maybe I'm just cynical but the suspicion seems to be that you have a big movie and an expansion coming out soon. It's natural for people to wonder if there's a relationship between those.

Dallas Dickinson: We know that the combat upgrade is something that is really controversial. It's causing both players and us a whole lot pain right now. My response to that, from the opposite of cynical, is, "Do you think we'd be crazy enough to do something that has a potentially negative impact right in front of a huge cash cow?" We're doing something that we think is right for the game at the right time, because this is the way forward for the game. I'd love know how we're trying to capitalize in a cynical way by making this change right now.

Julio Torres: This is something that we've always, since Jump to Lightspeed, wanted to put out on the live servers before anything else was sold or purchased by any of our new users or current users. We fundamentally believe that, for the longevity of this game, the combat we've implemented represents the movies much more effectively. To do it now is right.

We want to do it before anybody actually goes out and plays for the first time or even spends money on adding. We wanted to improve the game before that happens. The timing is skewed, in some sense. People may wonder why we're doing it now, but I think it's the perfect time. It's time to get this out there, and then people can spend more money on the game because they value it or buy it for the first time. They'll get to see the improved, upgraded experience.

Debysue Wolfcale: I just will add that I don't think the timing of this is that odd. We've been talking about this on the forums and with the community since November and December and we said in January and February, hopefully, we'd be doing a beta. We said maybe it'll the end of March or April. The timing of the combat upgrade has been relatively steady. Sure it was pushed out a little bit here and there for testing and development. The timing of the Episode 3 expansion was tied in to the movie. Really, they were two separate things that converged.

IGNPC: Thanks so much for your time today. We really appreciate your answers.

[Sei Teirson]

Seems they really do know how to bounce around the subject

IGNPC: Sure, but if you really want to make the game more like Star Wars, it seems like you're taking a step back from that and making the game more generic, more like EverQuest or World of Warcraft -- the new single health statistic, entertainers now acting more like bards. To some players, it seems that some of the things that made Star Wars distinct have been stripped away in favor of making the experience more conventional.

Dallas Dickinson: Let's clarify. When we say we want to make it feel more like Star Wars, what we're saying is that we want to make it feel more like the movies, which is what the general player wants. It sounds like you're saying we're making it less like Star Wars Galaxies, the game that's been out there for a while. We're certainly making it less like the Galaxies that you're used to, but those two things aren't in conflict. When we say we're making it more like Star Wars, we want to feel like we're Rebels running away from the Empire, doing really cool things to affect the Galactic Civil War and interacting with Han Solo and Princess Leia, and they're going to give me really cool missions. We're not talking about how different it is from the mechanics of certain other MMOs.

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This is what really ticked me off ..

Julio Torres: Players, specifically our hardcore players who've been playing for 20 months, have to relearn how to play.

Why should I have to play a system Forced onto me ? .. I want the old system back

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Wow! good job contridicting one another .. (emphisis text in blue)

Dallas Dickinson: There's already a huge shift among our players. They're saying, "I actually get it now. I'm starting to understand how to use my new skills." The immediate reaction was "Oh my gosh! I can't play anymore. I don't know how to play. I either always win or I always lose." People are now seeing that the system is a complex or as deep, I should say, as the previous system; it's just different. They're learning that now.

Debysue Wolfcale: Over the last 12 months, both LucasArts and Sony have invested in significant amounts of satisfaction research with players, both current and former. A lot of what we did was based on that research, on the finding that people are drawn to the game, because it's Star Wars and they really want to feel more engaged in the fun of the Star Wars adventure. What we did was say, "Let's make combat more fun and less mechanical. Let's take away some of the distraction that people have to get through and let them walk into the fight and click once and start battling something really fun."

This is were the problem begins .. one dev (monkey smashing a keyboard ) tells another dev to make easier, then another one across the room decided to let you stack spices and make foods that will allow you to get 13,500 health and almost unlimited regen ... Balanced? WOW were they wrong lol.

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I could go on and on all night with this stuff .. what great material for jokes