Raid Ettiquette and Mentality

[Rumblebore]

I am not a highly experienced Raid-er of the planes or of zones, but I talk to many people and use certain mental excercises that enable me to figure things out.  I write this in the general section so more people will see it.

About Raiding.

The game is set up in stages so that as you progress, it gets harder and more challenging, with better rewards as you go along.

In levels 1-10, dying is NOT an issue - you dont lose XP and reconstitute with all equipment on.  Mobs are just tough enough and as you get closer to level 10, you can kill lots of blues instead of the whites and yellows you are forced to at level 1.  There are now "newbie" quests for armor practically everywhere for all classes to get you broken in to questing for items. Occasionally, a higher level helps you a bit with buffs, heals or an item.

Levels 11-25 tends to be the transition levels away from newbie-ness and into groupiing together, learning 'basics' of group, and I do mean BASICS.  You now can lose xp when dying (but who cares at this point) and learn about Corpse Runs (CR's). You learn more about the other classes as you start grouping more often. BASICS are when to heal, mob aggro, mez controls, pets in groups, tanking versus casting, and learn a bit about how mobs can also be different classes.  Some more on quests (and they start getting more detailed and complex) and new zones and ares to explore, which can affect when to cast and when to melee, aggro, etc. Also - Plat making becomes important, especially when wanting spells and new equipment.

Level 25-40.  This is where you move to what may be called "Intermediate" school.  Your character is clearly no longer a newbie but YOU as the player may still qualify. Plat making and Tradeskills have entered your desires, and by now looking into being in a Guild makes a LOT of sense. This is also the realm for Casters to begin their Researching skills to get and make rare spells that they need.  Melees tend to work on Combat skills a lot, and try to balance all weapon types that they can wield to their level in skill ups.   Grouping is a must and when you get into a group that clicks, that just handles every mob really well, it usually happens the first time somewhere in these levels. You learn where XP is easy to get and where Plat is easier to get also.  You may start camping Mobs and static spawns, and start raiding zones within your guild or with a regular group of friends.  By this time you have made many contacts and start recognizing names as you run through the Bazaar, but can't place where you know them from.  You are now on the steps of becoming a Raid-er.

Level 41 - 46.  From here to 46, you are in a kind of limbo, which in one sense you stay in until 50+.  This is the time where Xp is sought after, and the magical goal of 46.5 for Planar Raiding becomes VERY important.  But it is at this point another change NEEDS to take place.  Your mentality about the game needs to alter. You need to become less self-serving and become MUCH more a team player.  On the planes, you cannot solo (until you hit the higher 50's and up into the 60's; even then it is inadvisable and rare to hear of someone trying to solo level 60+ mobs). Grouping is MANDATORY to take down the highest Mobs and ontain the rarest items.  And your way of thinking and playing needs to move into grouping mode.  And as you group more, you should be learning what does work in a given situation, when NOT to break mezz, when to let the Main Tank take the aggro for about 15-30 seconds BEFORE jumping in when he calls you in, when to heal and when not to, when to camp a cleric and when to let it play out, when to stand and die and when to bring the mob on.  Simply put, all YOUR actions suddenly MATTER to the RAID, not just yourself or a few others.  It was fun to laugh off someone pulling a Mob into your group and getting everyone killed of while at level 30, it is another to do the same thing and wipe out a RAID to a Plane at level 50.

These are generalities and others may disagree with them.  They are just to help with the following points:

And so I get to the main point of this long post.  SLoT had merged with TKO and now we are able to gather a large group of characters for Raids to Kael and the Planes, but many are still playing the level 30-40 tactics and mentality.  Neither I nor the officers and leadershp can make you THINK differently, but we can ask and require that when you participate in Raids and Planar activity, that you adopt a different and more cohesive attitude to make the Raid more successful.  Here are some things I know I would like to se more of on raids.

1) Often, a raid is announced here and the guidelines regarding the raid are explained.  There is a DEFAULT Raid guide (sticky post under RAIDS forum) which gives guidelines for raids.  READ THESE again and (if necessary) again. They provide details you will NEED to know.

2) Obviously, these Raids have purposes which can change from Raid to Raid.  In Kael, the main 2 purposes for being there are these: Armor (class specific) Drops and Faction (CoV, Coldain).  The Hate and Fear raids have generally been for Drop items and also to learn to operate there as a GUILD, but yesterday, the MAIN goal was to get items for Qques Epic.  That is QUITE a different focus on WHY we were there.  As these purposes change, SO SHOULD OUR ATTITUDE towards the raid.  Yesterday was an attempt to help a Guild-mate with his Epic.  That is QUITE different from a LOOT Raid.  We were eventually successful in helping Qque get his item for his epic (and as a side note, we got Shawdar an item for his also).  Please bear in mind that while it is always nice to get items, we NEED to keep the main purpose first and foremost in our minds.

On a Kael Raid, several people spoke up saying that they felt that they should be allowed to roll on Class-Specific Quested Armor drops so that their alts can get something nice. They totally MISSED the reason we were there.  It wasn't for their ALTS that we held the raid but because our MAINS were at the point we needed better armor for them and we had to work both Faction and camp Armor drops in order to get these pieces. To allow all melee to roll on the Caster-Only pieces means that our casters would go from having to roll against 1-3 others to having to roll against 7-14 others. That just is NOT reasonable and it was not the purpose of the raid.  And since we have NO control over the drops, people were bound to be disappointed at not getting anything.  In Kael, people camp there for weeks and months before getting enough drops to make up a complete set of armor.  These Drops are MQ-able but the main purpose was declared.  People should have come with that in mind, knowing that they may not get anything from  the raid but increased faction and knowing they helped their guild-mates.

3) You will Die on these raids. As we all move into the higher levels, Death comes a lot easier and often.  On the Fear Raid, in order to kill 2 mobs, the first person who approached the mob got hit for 20,000 HP.  NO ONE can survive that.  That means the first person HAD to make a suicide run.  The first Mob cast that same spell every 30 seconds in combat so we had to expect that we would lose 6-9+ players to dying before the mob died.  That requires a DIFFERENT way of thinking about why you come to a raid.  Death is going to happen.  Come expecting it.  But it is fair of you to expect a rez also.

4) Structure and Organization. The raid leaders KNOW that to succeed in a Planar raid or even in many zone raids into higher level dungeons, organization is necessary and must be maintained. People are usually appointed to 'handle' certain portions of the raid (Group making, looting, transportation to/from raid, conflict management, etc).  In order for the raid to go as smooth as possible, it is necessary for those not part of the organizing leadership to become a follower, willing to do what is told them when it is told them.  The tendency is to rebel against that, but when people finally see that coordinated attacks, done well, dispatch the mobs quickly, then you will see why it is important to follow instructions.  It is a simple thing, let the leaders lead and be a follower and do-er.

On the Fear raid, we had one person who was constant suggestiing and acting in ways that it was the duty of leadership to do.  While his actions did net us the help we needed to get the Break-in slaughter resolved, the manner of how he did it and the attitude that suggested the leadership was apparently not doing enough to reolve the matter and the behaviour of 'taking charge' which was exhibited  was inappropriate.  By my count, there were 5 officers in that raid and there were also 2 other people who were group leaders, all who were working on trying to resolve our dilemma.  That person overstepped their authority and stepped on many toes to make things happen.  Let me say that while we GREATLY appreciate the end results of this persons obtianing some wonderful help for us, the MANNER and ATTITUDE was out of place.  And that is one thing that is NOT needed on a raid.  PLEASE hear this.  Let the leadership work the problem.  several of us still have a lot to learn and we are AWARE of how frustrating it is to sit waiting for a CR or Rez.  We have been there too. Please support us, offer suggestions, encourage us, but do not usurp a place that is not yours to take.

5) Aggro and the Main Tank.  The Main Tank has a specific purpose in a group/raid.  He/She is to grab the aggro-, build that aggro up on the mob against him/her, and THEN to CALL other melee in.  The purpose for this is easy to see.  If the main tank has the most aggro on the mob and MAINTAINS the most aggro, then everyone else  is farr less likely to take damage.  Having a healer watching the main tank or several healers who ratate heals insures that the MT (and maybe the single healer) are likely to be the only ones the mob will focus on.  We then dispatch the mob more quickly and with less overall damage.  

I have watched on Raids how the MT attacks and within a couple of seconds, 3-5 other melee are atacking the mob, and THEN the MT called for help.  This habit of melee's to jump in needs to be changed in a Raid environment, or any group environment. Just so you all know, leadership will be watching this more closely in the future.  You MUST allow the MT to get and build a lot of aggro BEFORE jumping in to the fray.  Wait for the MT to CALL YOU IN to fight.

6) Knowing your Class and its function in a raid.  If you come to a raid, it is reasonable that the leaders can expect you to know your character well and to be willing to fill the niche they decide you need to cover.  Maybe your main niche is to snare the mob (or keep trying to) and then to DoT it or switch to helping heal.  Maybe you just have to join in the melee when called for.  Maybe you have to rotate healing with another cleric on the MT.  Whatever the need, you need to make that your main function and try to do it to the best of your ability.  To use the old analogy, when all the pistons are firing in order, the car runs smoothly.

7) CR/Rezzes - Yes, death will happen, and rezzes will be provided.  Helping us to accomplish this can be in waiting patiently, in offering a friends or and Alts help, in keeping things in chat 'light' and positive, rather than grumbling, and just understanding that we bear the burden of making you rez happen, more than you do.  As leadership, we accept that responsibility.  Please help us to make the CR as easy as possible.

In Summary - I have watched us grow to where we are beginning to put these concepts into practice and the results are improving.  It may take us a while, but we are moving along very well with room to grow.  I encourage you all to think about this and to work on things as you are able to.

[qque]

Let me just say that he put it in a much nicer fasion than what i wanted to.  I am sick and tired of people not listening to what is to be done and jumping the gun on things.  For some reason i can not get you to understand the importance of paying atenetion in a raid.  The fear raid break could have gone better, blame me.  The cr could have gone better blame those that would not stay out when asked.

    The whole CoM thing still burns me.  We almost lost the piece we went after in fear.  At least you all learned from your mistake and Shaw was able to get his epic.  I am debating still on having guild help me or getting some friends to help me next time. If this upsets you then imagine being 1 kill from you epic and having the whole thing almost blown.

[Linaboom]

Well put Rumble you have a way with words.

And Qque makes a very good point when on a raid you MUST listen to the raid leader.  When your told to sit and wait sit and wait.  It will only foul things up if you take things on yourself and get in the way or worse get the rezzing cleric killed.

CR can take awhile on a plane raid, thats the way it is, its just part of the game.

I hope everyone learns things from each raid we go on and uses it to not make the same mistakes the next time. )

I know i make mistakes and i hope i learn from them and not repeat them.

But i think we are getting better , we are growing so we have new people making the mistakes we made when we first did plane raids the key is to listen to the people who have been there and done it

If we all do this we will all grow as a guild and  be able to acheive many things

   

[Lotara]

Hello,

Very well put Rum.  This should be required reading for all guild members - now and again before every Raid.  We all have a lot to learn and this is one of the ways we do learn.  And it is through Raids that we will learn.  Please plan more Guild Raids so that we have an opportunity to learn.  One day I will be high enough in level to go to the Plains.  But is will be as a newbie to the Plains.  I will have a lot to learn.  Please be patient with me (us), you Leaders of the Raids, and continue with that leadership.  It is vital for a growing guild.

Lotara (Tara) 42 Bard and Zannette (Zann) 45 Cleric