Precasting returning?

[Martok]

Posted by Adrick on the UO.com boards

"The argument could be made back at the time precasting was removed that it could be used to pk and was a mystery to those who did not understand how to do it.

As it stands today given the tram fel ruleset and various other avenues for consensual pvp - precasting if restored to the game would effect pvpers - those who want no part of precasting and pvp have the means now to avoid it altogether. A vast majority of the posts, emails and general conversation in the pvp community is that restoring precasting to the game would make pvp more fun for them, more of a matter of player skill in who wins a fight.

The concern for us going into this is to ensure that characters with no magery can be competitive in pvp. The insta hit will not be returning which was one of the obvious unbalancing features of the old style.

The introduction of special moves, lumberjacking along with anatomy healing and med, swing timers with hit times based on dex have added more choices that will not be available the same to a mage/warrior as before when precasting was removed.

So we are looking at the feedback - and we are discussing what the end result will be when the combat changes listed in concept are finally published to all the shards"

[LizShue]

I sometimes think OSI just doesn't get it.  Who is pre-casting helping?  The warriors!  Without the insta-hit there is no point to mage pre-casting.  Heres the rub:

Mage v. Mage:

With precasting back, mages will again drop inscription/poisioning/healing/hiding/ etc and pickup wep skill + tactics.  

A mage w/o a weaponskill  vs. a mage w/ weaponskill and precasting will lose hands down.

A mage w/ weaponskill and precasting vs. a warrior now has a tougher time of things as they have droped inscription/healing/poisoning, and the mages weapon can't insta hit - making it worthless.

A warrior gains the ability to pre-cast greater heal and sit on it, with no disadvantages.

In short, by adding pre-casting but not insta-hit the mage suffers versus other magi if he keeps inscript(etc) but suffers vs warriors if he picks up the weapon skills for mage v. mage combat.  Meanwhile the warrior is gaining a bonus perk of sitting on a gheal/gcure (/mindblast etc for a med warrior).

Pre-casting without the insta hit is actually a NERF to mages, not some sort of bonus.

*sighs*

-LizShue

[Lord Ser Brightblade]

Quote from LizShue, posted on

Without the insta-hit there is no point to mage pre-casting.

Personally it wasnt exactly the insta hit which made me like precasting.  It was the fact I could get a few whacks in then get my FS off without delay.....often this was enough to finish the work I had started with Hally or Sword.

I guess it will all depend on the tactics employed by the mage using such a fearure if it is indeed brought back.

[Kalinaf]

While I agree with alot of things said by Liz, I personally dont view it as another nerg, though it could be.  What it really comes down to is Playstyle, Some make like that precast deal, when it was in I didnt / couldnt do it,  was a pain to even attempt it on dial up 250+ ping, heh!  As with all changes I adapt and move on though this time Kals skills are set Im not changing them again for the 20th time!  If my skill set is nerfed well, The PVP days of Kal are either over or Ill just have to learn new tactics!

[Gafgarion]

Just to clear a few things up, here is what's going on.

**EDIT**

Ok, so the last patch completely made the old version of Precasting enabled. No more messing with equiping weapon before targeting cursor appears. Now, if you equip it before the cursor appears, your concentration is broken and the spell is ruined.

**END EDIT**

A mage w/o a weaponskill  vs. a mage w/ weaponskill and precasting will lose hands down. -- LizShue

Not quite, mainly this still is based upon the skill of the caster(s). For example, if you are an experienced PvP Pure Mage and fighting a less experienced PvP Precasting Mage, 9 times out of 10 the experience wins out.

And don't forget that, in order to precast effectively now, you must have a reasonable amount of dexterity, more than 25 +11 (Agility), preferably around 45-60, or innitiate the battle (whereas, unlike counter-attacking, you will instantly swing your weapon, not making contact if you dex is low for about 1-1.5 seconds).

EXAMPLE

Mage A has these skills/stats

100 STR/INT  25 DEX

GM Magery -- Evaluating Intelligence -- Meditation -- Magic Resistance -- Inscription -- Poisoning -- Wrestling

Mage B has these skills/stats

80-90 STR  80-90 INT  45-65 DEX

GM Magery -- Evalutating Intelligence -- Meditation -- Magic Resistance -- Wrestling -- Swordsmanship -- Tactics -- **Precasting**

With the recent (upcoming) changes, Mage B has a slight disadvantage to Mage A because of the inscreased strength of spells. With the lower HP, Mage B could very well lose before he knew what happened.

A mage w/ weaponskill and precasting vs. a warrior now has a tougher time of things as they have droped inscription/healing/poisoning, and the mages weapon can't insta hit - making it worthless. -- LizShue

This is partially true, whereas the mage now has a tougher time battling the common Dex Monkey, but it still relies on the skill of the mage. A Mage is only as good as his skills, says some.

A warrior gains the ability to pre-cast greater heal and sit on it, with no disadvantages. -- LizShue

Mostly this is true, except in the case of the Lumberjacker, whereas most of his skills are already used up. He would have to remove some type of favorable skill to throw in Magery and re-balance his stats to be at no disadvantage, else he faces the risk of relying on his Greater Heal instead of potions/bandages (a common occurance on Test Center 6 tx6).

Pre-casting without the insta hit is actually a NERF to mages, not some sort of bonus. -- LizShue

Basically, that's how I see it, but it still lies in the skill of the mage.

It was the fact I could get a few whacks in then get my FS off without delay.....often this was enough to finish the work I had started with Hally or Sword. -- BB

This is very much the case now. With merely 1 regular hit with a GM/Magic Halberd followed by your precasted FS, you now can practically kill any person within seconds.

...or Ill just have to learn new tactics! -- Kalinaf

That's what it comes down to every patch that changes any skill, isn't it?

I lost track of where I am going with this, so I'm going to end this giant post now.

(P.S. - I've been honing my PvP skills for the last few months and will readily accept any challenges from anyone new or old.)

(P.S.S. - I'm not picking on anyone with the numerous quotes, just making a few points. There were various points with the various posts here.)

[LizShue]

Quote from Gafgarion, posted on

Just to clear a few things up, here is what's going on.

Not quite, mainly this still is based upon the skill of the caster(s). For example, if you are an experienced PvP Pure Mage and fighting a less experienced PvP Precasting Mage, 9 times out of 10 the experience wins out.

I agree skill (and of course ping) always wins out - the points I was trying to make were assuming equal skill and ping, I should have mentioned that.

-LizShue

[Koopsta]

Not to mention if a pure mage knows how to time combos right he could possibly kill someone with 80 hps with one combo.. like you all said before, it comes down to play style and ping..