antonius Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 In our kingdom, we have positions that are held be everybody. Each person has their own duties. When desicions are to be made about the codex, or other important topics, it is descussed by our Senator. Just a thought, but where are the House of Represenatives? Are we just going to be a unicameral guild. I would just like to bring to the attention to all that maybe it's time for a House of Reps. to be organized. Why should only six people carry the weight of the guild on their backs. If we created a House of Representatives (like in rl) we would have other to help making the desicions concering guild matters. Please post and give me your thoughts concering my idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kodoz Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 I believe that this is a good idea. Because as it stands the members dont have a say for the senate to be told and judge such statements. The idea of getting people in trouble and accusing people because of what they wear, or what their characters names are, or what they say is ridiculous. We should spend more time hunting, recruiting, helping, and working together than spend it arguing over petty issues. I will begin with this by myself saying that I will wear the dull purple of olympus. But we shouldnt go around and be so critical about what the members wear and so on. Half PGoH doesnt wear uniform when not at a guild event. I mention this as an example. Spend more time debating over things that matter and less on inconsequential things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhioTong Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 From my experiences from visiting various guilds in the realm, I have noticed two guild-organization-structures that are different from PGoH. (a)The majority of the guilds have only one leader: their guildmaster. This person is usually present to conduct all of their meetings, the generator and leader of their guild activities (ie, hunts, etc), and usually performs stonework immeadiately following each weekly meeting. This person is the consistent figure of attention and direction for guildmates to follow. PGoH is different in that, we have many different leaders to look to depending on our class within the empire. Our weekly meeting is also conducted by the highest ranking member present. The direction will vary each week depending on who is leading the meeting. Might it be possible to elect One Consistant Figurehead, who is available to be in-game regularly? This person will be reponsible for delivering the meeting, co-organizing events, and perhaps have the ability to perform stonework. (b)I have noticed that other guilds are consistantly looking to their fellow guildmates for activity and entertainment -with solid meeting places and methods of activity. They either have a set time each night to meet somewhere to hunt or gather, or a specific day and time, each week, that is set aside for the entire guild to particpate in a guild-wide event -such as a treasure hunt or champion spawns. It is usually the guildmaster who is the person to lead this event. I believe that all guild members in PGoH are responsible for organizing hunts, etc. So perhaps we can establish a time each night? or a time and day each week for gathering? This specific period of time will be a consistant event for guild cohesion, whether or not it is lead by one individual or many -as long as it is consistent. ©A tree! Perhaps a guild family tree can be created. I have noticed that most other guilds that employ class-societal-structure-concepts have a tree in place. This tree contains the names of each member and the class that they are in. This tree prevents guild members from feeling confused about their roles within their respective guilds. If PGoH were to create this tree, perhaps there might be less confusion about leaders, path and responsibilities. I would be more than happy to develop an outline of this idea, and will re-post/ply with my findings. That's about it, I think. Concerning the House of Representatives Idea.. I think it would be viable to have a council of members who might meet each week or any other consistent time.. to discuss guild issues. But it may be easier just to designate leadership to an individual who has the ability to CHANGE thigns within the guild.. with of course the approval of the guild in whole. That's about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurt Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 Yes, but do we have the people to support this little... idea? okay, so we get representatives, will there be anyone in any of the other cohors now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhioTong Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 *wipes sweat off face* after much processing of the keyboard and digits.. i present to you a PGoH Tree of Magical Member Hierarchy and Entitlement! Please let me hear your suggestions and recommendations.. corrections and all sorts of weirdo questions and ideas. Thank You! http://www.geocities.com/thiork/tree.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ser Brightblade Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 If I might respond to this. First The Senate is the "House" for all intents and purposes. It is why I practically beg and plead with you all to bring items of concern up here on the boards to inform the Senators of them. I also have encouraged in game voicing of concerns (the weekly Sunday meeting is a place where every member of the guild has as much opportunity as any other to voice concerns and table ideas (which will then later be posted upon the boards by that member for those that could not be present). This meeting is also a place where the Senators should strive to be present each and every week. So in a sense while the Senate is the formal "house" you seek we really have an open forum . Secondly for those that have been with us since the forming of the guild we have had many alternative forms of government. One of which was much like what is being proposed. It failed miserably. The reason? Everyone can not be appeased, everyone can not have a direct voice in the final vote of things. We cant get people to use the boards in the simple manner we desire now and conveyance of ideas and policy making is expected? During the time we had a format like this absolutely nothing ever got accomplished. Simply put we had too many cooks strirring the pot and all that got done was that the pot got over turned. So basically if you wish to represent the common guild member then make an effort to be at every guild meeting you can. Voice your opinions there, then follow up by posting here. Demand, within reason, that your Senators attend these meetings (real life must take precedence but for the most part they should be able to attend). Now Senators: For this to work as it has and should you must make an effort to attend meetings (for the most part you do this). Second Honor Council meetings need to be held on a regular basis to get articles passed. I have been patiently awaiting and posting on recieving an agenda from you for no less than three weeks. I am now telling you that we need an agenda, and soon. It is unfair to the guild to have them table issues and then for the Senators to procrastinate because there are more interesting things going on. I only wish I could do the same I cant even begin to tell you what I miss out on to deal with daily upkeep of the guild, why should it be different for you? Your position demands that you represent and care for the needs and concerns of the guild. Quite frankly you are currently failing at this. Just as a consistantly absent Senator can and should be replaced so should inactive or complacent Senators. This also would include Senators that are avoiding duty for more entertaining events, even if they are guild events. Your primary duty is to ensure that the guild is shaped molded and maintained. A very close second is to ensure through delegation that events and activities are always ongoing. Please be cognizant of the fact that some might be failing at this. Once again I am asking; please may I have an agenda from one Senate member which has been signed off on by all the members, as well as a date for the next CoH meeting so that the general populace can be informed and be present to hear the procedings. Lastly and this applies to everyone. If you hold a title, even that of Legionnaire you are expected to act and perform at a minimum, within the parameters set within the title and listed within the codex. This does not exclude you from organizing events, voicing opinion and helping this guild grow in both membership and ability to service all within it. There are some who consistantly do this but the majority sit back and do little to this effect. Those that lead by example often find themselves in positions where they can make the greatest changes. This leading through example should be done out of genuine interest in seeing the guild succeed and not with power as a motivating factor. I hope this post has cleared things up for many and I hope it has also served as a reminder to all what we owe one another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ser Brightblade Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 The idea of getting people in trouble and accusing people because of what they wear, or what their characters names are, or what they say is ridiculous. Kodoz let me respond very strongly by saying that to wear the guild colors in the manner prescribed within the Codex is not an option. I liken it to pissing on the flag. If you aren't proud enough of the guild to wear its colors then begone. I admit that not all like the current color and this is an issue which needs to be addressed but this does not mean that we should ignore the rule because we do not like it. If I do not like the laws of my state or the US does that mean I should go out and openly break them? I hope you answered no to this. It is no different here. You work within the parameters of the existing laws and should you take exception to any, use the power given to you to get things changed by the Senate which represents you all. If I must I will use the power of my position to bring offenders before the Senate and the Emperor for punishment to be doled out. Senators, Imperator and Centurions. It is your duty to ensure that those below you operate under all the articles of the codex. Do not think I do not take note of those who offend. I await the opportunity to see some removed for thier outright flaunting and disregard of basic guild principles....but first I need to ensure that things such as Senate and guild meetings are regular events, for they are the cornerstone to guild operations and thus must take precedence to my own primary function which is to police. None should take my words as threats take them as fact. It is the duty to which I have been sworn to carry out and I take that seriously. It is what I owe to you all by wearing that title above my head. It is why I come home from a job that has stresses and strains very few can comprehend and delve into the daily crap tossed my way...and believe me its deep. I tire of it to say the least but I still do what what I must because it is the right thing to do. It is a game yes, but like all games there are rules to be followed. Why is this such a foriegn concept? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elathiel Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 I agree that a few things need to change. However, I also agree that the current form of leadership works as well as the people in the positions. As Ser Brightblade said, leadership needs to be more active. That said, while I am only a Phalynx, I will start leading by example as Brightblade suggested. I do a little, but not enough as far as events go, so you can expect pigeons and posts to do things as a unit ! Let us work together instead of at odds. We have a group of people in the Empire that can accomplish GREAT things if we put our minds to it! I'll do my part. Who else is on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ser Brightblade Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 Thank you so much for your tree Thiork. I know it is not your duty to maintain such an item but could you work with the Senate to ensure it is kept up to date and that individual Senators email you with any corrections that need to be made to titles under thier house?? It takes me nearly 30 minutes to title a single person at times due to issues with our legacy stone. Clear and concise listings would at least make this slightly less frustrating. I take a great deal of time out of my life that should be spent with my family to see to it that this online family is cared for as well items such as this go a long way in helping me balance the two more. Again Thiork, thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 Thank you so much for your tree Thiork. I know it is not your duty to maintain such an item but could you work with the Senate to ensure it is kept up to date and that individual Senators email you with any corrections that need to be made to titles under thier house?? It takes me nearly 30 minutes to title a single person at times due to issues with our legacy stone. Clear and concise listings would at least make this slightly less frustrating. I take a great deal of time out of my life that should be spent with my family to see to it that this online family is cared for as well items such as this go a long way in helping me balance the two more.Again Thiork, thank you. Exactly as BB said it It is exactly the sort of attitude and committment that makes the guild work, when people can step up to help make things better as opposed to complainining about why they're not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kodoz Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 Kodoz let me respond very strongly by saying that to wear the guild colors in the manner prescribed within the Codex is not an option. I liken it to pissing on the flag. If you aren't proud enough of the guild to wear its colors then begone. I admit that not all like the current color and this is an issue which needs to be addressed but this does not mean that we should ignore the rule because we do not like it. If I do not like the laws of my state or the US does that mean I should go out and openly break them? I hope you answered no to this. It is no different here. You work within the parameters of the existing laws and should you take exception to any, use the power given to you to get things changed by the Senate which represents you all. Id like to point out I was referring to a specific statement by Lora at the meeting that makes your statement stay correct even though i have no problem wearing the right shade of purple. My Problem is Lora said that it didnt matter if you had the wrong clothing but it did matter if you had the wrong shade of purple. Well either way thats ridiculous. If you enforce one point of the codex on attire but not the other than you are seen as an unfair leader. If you get people in trouble for one offense against the codex but not another then you render the codex ineffective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 the ones wearing the wrong clothing were also punished though so no one got away with anything lora simply stated that even if someone is wearing wrong clothing they are still breaking codex but if they are breaking it they should at least be wearing the right shade. In other words its bad to do 1 thing wrong its even worse to do 2 things wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ser Brightblade Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 And who enforces the Codex Kodoz? Did a person from that group speak up on the matter? Did the leader of that group speak up on the matter? Was any unjust action brought about with reference to the codex by the group which enforces it? I hope you responded with a no to each of these questions. As to what occured at the meeting I can not say but Im extremely displeased to hear the total and complete lack of respect that certain members held towards others. There is a chain of command and a method in place for handling disagreements. Neither were followed in this instance. *shakes head* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kodoz Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 Rusty i was unaware any punishment was alloted to those out of clothing uniform whereas i am charged with having 1k leather by sunday. not that thats a problem, its just the principle of the thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elathiel Posted January 14, 2003 Share Posted January 14, 2003 Lord Logan was the one not wearing the proper uniform (no cloak) and he came forwarded as it all unfolded and pledged to do the same .. 1000 hides for the Empire by the next meeting. On the topic of Ser no knowing exactly what happened at the meeting last night, i will fix this. Starting with the next meeting, i will record all that is said and done and post it up on the skypage. This will ensure that nothing is taken wrongly as well as keep those who could not attend for r/l issues fully informed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ser Brightblade Posted January 14, 2003 Share Posted January 14, 2003 Rusty i was unaware any punishment was alloted to those out of clothing uniform whereas i am charged with having 1k leather by sunday. not that thats a problem, its just the principle of the thing And principly speaking if you had been in uniform it wouldnt be a problem regardless would it? You are an officer of some rank. It is through your lead that others follow. Your example is poor and it is no wonder others will not accept the rules when those officers sworn to hold order to their cohort can not have the discipline to wear proper attire. With that all said I think we will be working on uniforms in the near future including the simplification of them and the fact that they are not very befitting the women in our guild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antonius Posted January 14, 2003 Author Share Posted January 14, 2003 When I made this post for a House of Representatives, I was not aware that I was going to strike a nerve. I was meerly presenting a new idea to the guild. I just figured with more guild memebers joining, and other entire guilds joining us, I just thought that we might need more people to help lead things around Olympus. I did not mean to start any conflict within the guild. I just figured that six people might have trouble maintaining things, when we have over 100 characters in our kingdom. I also thought that in doing this idea, it would make us more like our governement today. I vote that this be a new topic at our next meeting. And for all of you who were not able to come back to Olympus to hear me, I just wanted to tell you, that I acted out of line last night. Those of you who heard me last night, forgave me, I just hope that those of you who did not hear me, will forgive me too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhioTong Posted January 14, 2003 Share Posted January 14, 2003 Har! Yea. Im really happy with the tree also! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aviana Posted January 14, 2003 Share Posted January 14, 2003 Thorik your tree is wonderful Honestly...You did an awesome job. I don't care what anyone says, but you will never make every single person happy in game or in real life and that is how it is. There is always gonna be atleast one person who likes a different shade of purple...I mean it's a preferance or opinion....and an opinion is like an #######...everybody's got one...But the bottom line is you go with what will make the majority happy. and just so everyone knows there was a poll about changing the color purple not to long ago and it was changed to what the majority wanted. I think that the leadership will expand as the guild does...it will take time though.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triston Posted January 14, 2003 Share Posted January 14, 2003 To me it seems like a lot of arguing over a moot point. Perhaps we could choose a more resonable issue then clothing to become irate about...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizShue Posted January 14, 2003 Share Posted January 14, 2003 *wipes sweat off face*after much processing of the keyboard and digits.. i present to you a PGoH Tree of Magical Member Hierarchy and Entitlement! Please let me hear your suggestions and recommendations.. corrections and all sorts of weirdo questions and ideas. Thank You! http://www.geocities.com/thiork/tree.html This tree is so cool Thiork... keep it up to date and get it posted on the main site! PS You know I can't answer your ICQs because you refuse to upgrade from "lite"! So UPGRADE dammit. -LizShue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elathiel Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 Thiork, get with BB or myself on a list of a few title changes (since everyone that is under the wrong title or cohort doesnt read the skypage grrrr). We have a list of changes that is current as of about 2 weeks ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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